Topic

Backstory: It's a 2001 F that's been sitting for two years, took some work with the brakes and replacing front right wishbone to get the MOT sorted, but no problems at all with the engine. Head gasket changed to the new version by previous owner and the battery is not a year old.
Only problem is that the starter screeches a bit when starting, as if it doesn't disengage properly. Engages and starts the engine flawlessly, then a short screech at the end - but not every single time, once in a while it works perfect.

Anyway, came out to the car this morning after using it over the weekend and to/from work this week, turned the key and heard the starter go one revolution, maybe only half a rev - and then *everything* died immediately, not a single light on the dash. Turned the key again - absolutely nothing.
Started swearing and checked the battery just to be sure, but the lugs sat properly on the terminals.

Swore some more, closed everything up and then I noticed the red little diode labelled "alarm" on the dash actually flashed, so I tried to lock by the remote - and the car locked itself!
By then I was in a hurry to work, so I left it.

Since we sell batteries at work I brought one this evening together with a load tester to check the CCA. This time the remote didn't work so I had to use the key to get in (no alarm went off) and tested the battery - it passed with flying colours!
Tried to start and you could just hear the starter move ever so slightly before everything died again. One more test and the dash did light up but died when trying to start. A third test - absolutely nothing again.

Just for the hell of it I switched battery to the one I brought from work, but no change. This time the remote didn't work when I left so I had to lock by key.

How do I get it running again? No major work can be done where it is at the moment since it's an outdoor parking lot.
I ruled out the battery, that's in perfect working order.
The starter? But if it's stuck, wouldn't you still hear it trying or at least the solenoid? On the other hand, dash should still work while trying?

As usual, any ideas would be hugely appreciated!

Sounds like the terminal on the starter has corroded off, common fault on our cars.
If the starter motor is screeching when engaging and disengaging, maybe the engage gear is sticking, probably best to just fit a new starter, but worth taking off and checking out first.

Sundance

The screeching starter could be the the big hint here, it's possible that the starter pinion ( the small gear in the end of the starter motor) isn't engaging with the ring gear of the flywheel and binding up causing an electrical overload.
There are probably damaged sectors on the ring gear, what you need to do to check this is remove the starter, check the pinion isn't mangled, then put it in a vice and connect a battery to observe that the pinion mechanism is engaging properly, (you will need to put it in a vice to secure it when you power it up, as the starter produces a shit load of torque and could injure you if you try to hold it by hand!)
Next check the ring gear........ using a glamorous assistant, rotate the engine at least one whole revolution by hand, whilst inspecting the ring gear through the hole vacated by the starter motor.
You are looking for chewed up sections on the ring gear.
4cyl engines usually stop at the two same places in their rotation every time they're switched off, so when started the starter nearly always engages at the same two sectors of the ring gear.

Depending on the mechanical aptitude of the aforementioned glamorous assistant, you may have to do the turning whilst they video the ring gear with a mobile phone.
A damaged ring gear will require replacement, you'll need to separate gearbox from the engine, remove the clutch (inspect the clutch and probably replace it while your there) remove the flywheel, now remove the ring gear from it, by cutting it between the teeth with a sharp cold chisel ( it's easier if you CAREFULLY drill through the ring gear to weaken it, without drilling into the flywheel!)
To fit the new ring gear to the flywheel, evenly heat the ring gear to @ 350C, this will expand the ring gear to enable you to press it by hand (use welder's gloves) onto the flywheel.
Some ring gears will have chamferd teeth on one side, the chamfer is to enable the starter to engage more easily, so this this side is to face the starter.
I suggest you sneak into the kitchen whilst no one is looking and using the oven to heat up the ring gear,it will probably change colour to a bluish hue, it wont hurt to hurl the flywheel in the freezer while you heating the ring gear.
Cooling the flywheel will cause it to contract, buying you a little more time to fit the hot ring gear.
Quickly place the hot ring gear onto the cooled flywheel, tap it into place with a copper or leather faced hammer if need be. (if you don't have such a hammer, you can use a steel faced hammer with a bit of brass, cooper or aluminum bar as a drift, so as not to damage the ring gear.)
Put it to one side to cool all by itself. Slap the whole lot back together.....happy days!
I cannot put enough emphasis on the fact that you need to move quickly once you take the ring gear out of the oven, getting stuck half on/ half off is not an option.

Of course, you may have two separate problems, an electrical problem as well as a damaged ring gear.

The plan was to give the starter an overhaul anyway come winter, but it seems like I have to reschedule!

I guess you can't see the starter from the access panel in the boot? If I have to remove the larger engine cover I have to get the car to my garage first and take it from there. I really hope I don't have to change the ring gear…

I'll try to check the terminal tonight, meanwhile: more ideas are always welcome!

/edit
Oh, when checking for spares - same starter for every F/TF or what do I need to look for? 12 teeth all over?

Do I take it Cobber mi old mucker that you are encouraging Stefan to persuade his Wife / partner to allow him to use the cooker and freezer to fix his car ! ! ! Good luck with that one Stef . :-/

did the ring gear on my 1600 MG Maestro back in the 90s ( got to the stage where you had to push it two feet forward in gear to get a section of ring gear with teeth opposite the starter motor, my wife wasn't impressed!). Ring gear in the oven on gas mark 4 or 5, when i dropped the ring gear onto the flywheel it rattled ( at 300°C a 300mm diameter ring gear will increase 1mm in diameter), but contracted enough when cool to grip, no problem after that. No point putting the flywheel in the freezer, at best you will only reduce the temperature by around 30°C which will have little effect.

Okay, some more troubleshooting done!

Came back to the car, saw the alarm light flicker but no reaction when I tried to open the car by remote - although I did lock it by key yesterday. Opened by key and the alarm started blaring. Pressed the unlock on the remote holding it just in front of the dash to no good. Solution: opened the bonnet and yanked the connections to the horns...

Tried start, no. Tried to jump start by towing, no. But I suspect that the immobilizer is stopping everything since the alarm went off and I couldn't shut it off properly. Had the battery disconnected for half an hour but no change.

The alarm is as far as electrics go now, no reaction at all when turning the key, no hazards, no headlights - nothing. Checked the fuses under the bonnet and under the dash and all seems good. Got a tip about the 60A fuse between the Ecu and expansion tank and that sure looks funny. Looks somewhat melted but I beeped it with a multimeter and seems fine, though the connections looks a bit corroded. A culprit maybe?

Anyway, I got it towed back to my garage, so now it's indoors with my tools. Makes it easier to work.

So, replace the 60A or should I suspect some relay instead?

sworkscooper wrote: wrote:

Do I take it Cobber mi old mucker that you are encouraging Stefan to persuade his Wife / partner to allow him to use the cooker and freezer to fix his car ! ! ! Good luck with that one Stef . :-/

I did say: "I suggest you sneak into the kitchen whilst no one is looking" Under these circumstances the there should be no persuasion and/or permission required............what she don't know won't upset her!
I got my self a portable inductive hotplate from Aldi, to heat bearings that need expanding, I put a piece of 3mm steel plate on it, and the bearing on top of that.......it takes a bit of time but it's a bloody damned side cheaper than a bearing heater. It's too small for ring gears though.

Replaced the 60A fuse in the engine compartment today and I also checked every single fuse I could find under the bonnet and in the main fuse box in the foot well.
Only one fuse looked a bit strange, not blown but almost melted down by one of the connectors. F19 if I'm not mistaken, "Starter relay (multi function ECU)... Hm?

Replaced that one as well, connected the battery again and tried to start - nothing. This time I listened to the car when connecting the lug to the terminal of the battery and I heard nothing, usually you hear relays clicking but nope, dead silent.

What the hell has happened to my poor car?

Just for fun I got the starter relay out from the engine, the one marked "YWB 100970". The connectors look fine, no smell of burnt electronics - but how do you check this thing, if you can at all..?

Or am I barking up the wrong tree here, should I search for something completely different..?

We did that at work...fitted a cam gear to a new shaft.....we put the oven on in the canteen and heated the gear up it went straight on...best thing with this method is the even heat distribution around the gear/ring gear....downside was we hadn't cleaned the gear that well and we could smell the oil burning off inside for quite a while...have also used those paraffin space heaters in workshops for heating smaller stuff like crankshaft speedy sleaves. ...😅

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mgtfbluestreak wrote: wrote:

We did that at work...fitted a cam gear to a new shaft.....we put the oven on in the canteen and heated the gear up it went straight on...best thing with this method is the even heat distribution around the gear/ring gear....downside was we hadn't cleaned the gear that well and we could smell the oil burning off inside for quite a while...have also used those paraffin space heaters in workshops for heating smaller stuff like crankshaft speedy sleaves. ...😅

We have a handy fridge for dropping shafts into at work, and worth buying, Mark, as they are not that expensive, an induction heater. It has several wire elements of different sizes that you can chose to fit, and you wrap around a bearing or bush and heat it up in seconds prior to dropping onto the shaft.

Sundance

Well well well...

I took a good look at the earth connection for the battery this morning and the cable itself looks fantastic (since I made it myself at work...) but I didn't change the bolt to the chassis and that sure was dodgy. Got a new one, cleaned up the threaded hole in the chassis and tried again. Hey presto, we've got power!

Of course a new problem rose - the alarm went off and I just can't stop it.

Locking or unlocking with the fob doesn't work at all (door locks don't move), key in door made no difference and when trying the ignition, the dash does light up but no start and the horns won't shut up.

Split the fob and measured the battery without removing it, 2.89V. Low?

I'm really frightened about the fob losing its magic connection with the car since I only have one fob and I do not have the EKA key code.

This might be covered in the manual, but since the car is imported from Holland the manual is in Dutch and.. yeah.