Gear change changes.

Gear change changes. was created by Airportable

Posted 2 months 1 week ago #207812
During our friends discussion on the gear change problems with MGB281’s car, I asked about the bell crank update supplied by Mike Satur. As both Delbourt & MGB281 have this upgrade there comments carry an amount of weight. It was stated that the major difference was the rose joints on the cables as opposed to the original ball & rubberised joint. 
I have said before that I like rose joints & so for £7-00 I bought four, two to cock up & two assessment of any improvements. 
I am very well equipped in my workshop so this project wasn’t difficult, it would be if you didn’t have the kit. To improve the accuracy of setting the system I made adapters to convert the 1mm pitch of the 6mm cable to 32tpi; this gives me a somewhat excessive number of possible positions of 64. 
It all went rather well & although a bit more twiddling with reverse is required, the rest has tighten up noticeably, to the point where I’m cross with myself for not doing it sooner. 
I think the pictures are self explanatory, with the exception of the block, this is to push out the scroll pin, If you want any more info just shout
M
Last Edit:2 months 6 days ago by Airportable
Last edit: 2 months 6 days ago by Cobber.
The following user(s) said Thank You: MGB281, rosshaden

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Replied by Airportable on topic Gear change changes.

Posted 2 months 1 week ago #207813
Sorry I forgot to include the pictures in the text, would one of the prefect’s oblige & correct yet another one of my goofs.
The pit had been the coolest place in the village today & so faffing about with this had been pleasant
M

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Replied by MGB281 on topic Gear change changes.

Posted 2 months 1 week ago #207816
That’s very nicely done, the best part of using standard rosé joints rather than the “stud” type is that it doubles the number of adjustments. Old age memory means that I don’t recollect if the Mike Satur bell crank extends closer to the gearbox to enable two holes for mounting the rose joints. I wonder if the standard bell crank would have enough meat for that. I also don’t understand why two positions were provided for the lower cable but only one for the other. 
by MGB281

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Replied by Delbourt on topic Gear change changes.

Posted 2 months 1 week ago #207823
Grief! That is striving for perfection. 
Did you ever drive a Hillman Imp or equivalent variant? If you did you would be familiar with the vague feeling of "select a gear any gear so long as it is a forward one and not reverse".
If someone comes up with a means to prevent inadvertent selection of reverse whilst travelling at speed in a forward direction I'm interested!

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Replied by davidej on topic Gear change changes.

Posted 2 months 6 days ago #207826
I think you need a serious workshop to do that. I particularly like the block for pushing the roll pin out. I had to buy an extractor on Fleabay and then spend some time grinding parts of it away to make it fit.
by davidej

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Replied by Airportable on topic Gear change changes.

Posted 2 months 6 days ago #207833
The choice of using the 32tpi tap etc was more a matter of what taps & dies I had of the appropriate diameter for the job. Too small an O/D & the structural integrity would be compromised when drilling & tapping M6 & the rose joint would be weakened if too large a hole was bored to replace the existing M6 as supplied. I hadn’t used my ME taps & died for a while & thought I’d give them an outing.
The block was an off cut of square section, chucked in a four jaw, pilot drilled & bored out, then drilled to hold the two halves together once cut. The screw & pin exit hole were drilled, the exit larger than the scroll & the threaded hole tapped.
Finally the finished block was slit.
As an amateur workshop go I’m well equipped & I realise I’m extremely fortunate, my father was an astute buyer of equipment & I have stepped carefully in his foot steps.
M

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Replied by Airportable on topic Gear change changes.

Posted 2 months 5 days ago #207847
I’m sure you’ll be heartily sick of me & my antics but before I leave you alone for a bit I’ll just add a picture of the last two rose joints of the four bought as experiments. 
There has been talk about the clutch slave cylinder brace, as I was in the engine compartment changing the brown temperature sensor, I’m trying to find out why the front fan comes on when not required. 
I made a plate to mount above the cylinder & a bracket to mount under a bell housing bolt. 
I ran out of enthusiasm & didn’t take it for a run, I’ve had a busy day. 

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Replied by Airportable on topic Gear change changes.

Posted 2 months 5 days ago #207848
Since I took the photograph I’ve moved the bell housing bracket & the tie rod is now parallel to the push rod.
M

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Replied by Airportable on topic Gear change changes.

Posted 2 months 3 days ago #207862
One last hurrah on this topic. All the modifications are completed & the difference is obvious. Everything feels more connected, as if there’s tension in the system, I’m not used to it yet, that might take a week or two with the mileages I’m doing at the moment & I’m unsure as yet whether I’m a lazy shifter of old or a slick shifter as now.
If I were to have paid full chuck for the uprated bell crank etc & for the clutch brace, I’m not sure I’d view the new feel as great value. 
A track dayer would be happy to swap old for new, but that’s not my scene. 
The entire job cost £10 in bits plus engineering time, I’m not costing the abrasions & cuts there free as they always are. 
M

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Replied by MGB281 on topic Gear change changes.

Posted 2 months 2 days ago #207865
I am interested to know if you found a difference with the slave cylinder brace. I have the engine cover bolted down so probably won’t look at it for a couple of months. The MOT is scheduled for the 15th so hopefully that will go without any problems. 
I hope to get the GT blasted and primed before we head into the winter so that is the over riding priority. My third iteration of engine mounts has finally got the Jaguar engine RX8 gearbox combination into its final position. 
Last Edit:2 months 2 days ago by MGB281
Last edit: 2 months 2 days ago by MGB281. Reason: Adding information

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Replied by Airportable on topic Gear change changes.

Posted 2 months 2 days ago #207867
What is good for the goose isn’t necessarily good for the gander.
I would have had to have felt very dissatisfied with the clutch operation, to go to the extent of stripping out all the junk at the rear of the car to bugger about with a commercial brace.
I had the cover off to change a sensor & having read with interest the discourse on gear changing I had a look to see what could be done.
Was it worth it? From an engineering standpoint it wasn’t difficult, I just wander around my collection of old iron, did a few measurements, drew an idea on my work table & made Mk1. Mk3 was a repositioning of the truss rod & the removal of metal as it interfered with a pipe.
The most difficult bit was getting two hands into too small a space!
There is now no perceived movement in the system,(is that a good thing?) & the entire assembly feels more taut. Clutch operation happens within a reduced portion of the clutch pedal travel, possibly requiring more precision in balancing the clutch.
Over the summer months wife & I do a lot of walking & our kit lives in the MG boot, however I hurt my foot whilst out & I’ve been told to rest it. Bugger that, I’m not sitting with my foot on a cushion, so with this lot blowing I say on an office chair in the workshop & made this & did the modifications to the gear change (the doctor didn’t say anything about going into the pit),
I should have done one & absorbed that & done the next.
Has it made a difference? Yes, was it worth the effort? At the end of the day that would be a balancing act of your expectation / price paid for a commercial item.
If you can make your own, take that route.
Or root if you’re in Oz!
M

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Replied by Delbourt on topic Gear change changes.

Posted 2 months 1 day ago #207871
So, am I reading this right?
you have constructed a very sensitive means of connecting the gear change cables to the selector rod using a standard bell crank,
AND braced the clutch slave cylinder to the bellhousing using the “spare” rose joints and some form of bracket that stiffens the existing support?

if so I’m not following exactly how you did that and it would be helpful to have some sketch details of that arrangement please.

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