Modified 48mm Throttle Body mark 2.
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- Leigh Ping
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Replied by Leigh Ping on topic Re: Modified 48mm Throttle Body mark 2.
Posted 14 years 1 week ago #57396PQD44 wrote: The speed of the car and the revs are connected via the fixed ratios of the gearbox.
The car will do the same speed in the same gear for the same engine revs. The only way to alter that would be to change gear cog size or number of teeth on cogs in the gearbox or to change your wheel rolling circumference.
The long and the short of it is if, for example, you need to have 3000rpm in 5th gear to cruise at 70mph that is fixed. No change in air flow is going to alter that.
Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) - Quote below, from the manual -
When in automatic mode the Em - CVT provides an infinite number of ratios within its operating range.
I understand that Whiz's manual gears may well be fixed. But in mine, they're infinite. Could this have an impact on the rpm? Any physics professors in the house? Answers on a postcard please. I'm off to work. :lol:
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Replied by MartinW on topic Re: Modified 48mm Throttle Body mark 2.
Posted 14 years 1 week ago #57422Firstly, remember that a gear box is a torque multiplier. The torque produced by an engine is insufficient to start the car from standstill and accelerate, but once up to speed the torque required to maintain a constant speed is sufficiently delivered by the engine and hence the fact that top gear is a ratio of 1:1 and anything less than 1:1 is usually considered an overdrive gear. Hence for simplicity of manufacture, manual and stepped auto transmissions still prevail, but because each ratio is fixed, the engine revs must rise to increase the speed of the vehicle.
However the CVT is a totally different situation. Essentially, when you press the throttle pedal, what you are effectively doing is controlling the gearbox which in turn controls the engine speed by having an infinite number of ratios from which to choose so that the the engine rpm can be kept either at peak torque (or just below for fuel efficiency) for steady speed cruising or at peak power if wanting to accelerate quickly.
However, a CVT or IVT (infinitely VT) will basically select a gear ratio by adjustment of cogs or belts (think DAF 33 that could go as fast in reverse as forwards). In an ideal world the gear ratio selected by the transmission brains will be at an engine speed where the torque is sufficient to pull the car along at a constant speed with the torque required being determined by the resistance to motion of the tyres and the wind on a flat road. If on an incline, to overcome the mass of the vehicle to maintain momentum up the incline, the engine may need to rev faster as the gearbox will change the ratio selection, but going downhill the vehicle's mass will aid the engine so the engine will rev less than on a flat road.
Your modification has effectively altered the torque curve for your engine. Whether the Stepspeed is smart enough to realise this I have no idea not being familiar with the system but I suspect the engine management detects how much fuel is being used and the throttle position etc. to determine whether the ratio selected is capable of maintaining the speed.
Remember that an engine has a torque curve that is determined by the design (bore, stroke, etc.) and the efficiency of the combustion. The latter is what you have changed by allowing more air and fuel into the combustion chamber. Therefore you have probably increased the torque lower down the rev range, and now the CVT is able to hold the same speed at 70mph with lower engine revs compared to before. Before, your engine needed to be at 3200rpm to produce sufficient torque whereas it can do it at 2500rpm in order to maintain 70mph against wind resistance and tyre friction. A roling road before and after would confirm this showing the torque curve at a higher value lower down the rev range.
However, on a hot, dry day, the engine would not be as efficient so your revs may be slightly higher as the air is thinner and the mixture less dense, but I wouldn't worry, because from what I hear, it hasn't stopped raining in the UK.
Apologies for any confusion caused!
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Replied by Leigh Ping on topic Re: Modified 48mm Throttle Body mark 2.
Posted 14 years 1 week ago #57525MartinW wrote: The latter is what you have changed by allowing more air and fuel into the combustion chamber. Therefore you have probably increased the torque lower down the rev range, and now the CVT is able to hold the same speed at 70mph with lower engine revs compared to before. Before, your engine needed to be at 3200rpm to produce sufficient torque whereas it can do it at 2500rpm in order to maintain 70mph against wind resistance and tyre friction.
Apologies for any confusion caused!
What a clear and concise explanation that was Martin. I found it to be as near as damn it in laymans terms.
Just for the record, Whiz was 3200rpm and I was 3000rpm @70mph. That mysteriously went to around 25-2600rpm after doing the mod (checked it again on my drive to work last night and it was the same). Now, I'm quite sceptical myself about such claims. But I didn't believe that I could be 'that' mistaken or overwhelmed by such a simple mod. Either way, it helps me to enjoy the car more and brings me deeper into the Darkside. Appreciated.
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Replied by MartinW on topic Re: Modified 48mm Throttle Body mark 2.
Posted 14 years 1 week ago #57566Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
But there is a claim being made here that the manual gearbox driven car is also seeing as drop in revs at a set speed? This simply cannot be.
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