Brake pipe flares

Brake pipe flares was created by Delbourt

Posted 1 month 1 week ago #223685
Can any one tell me the diameter of the brake pipe to the front calliper and if it is a double, bubble or Din flare.
i need to replace a fitting involving cutting off the flare as close to the end as possible and create a new flare.
At the moment Im working out how to stem the flood of fluid probably involving a blanking plug at the ABS.
Removing the pipe in one piece looks impossible and it was probably one of the first things fitted during the assembly on the line.

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Replied by TA22GT on topic Brake pipe flares

Posted 1 month 1 week ago #223686
Vince I am sure your brake pipe will be steel. If you need to make a double flare you will need a really good brake piping tool.
When I removed my Proportioning valve I had to change from a single flare to a double to fit the connector to join the pipes together and I had to make one pipe up from copper and borrow a really expensive German flaring tool from a local garage to do the steel pipe on the car.. My basic tool does copper but wouldn't look at steel ...so be wary of cutting the end off.
by TA22GT
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Replied by Delbourt on topic Brake pipe flares

Posted 1 month 1 week ago #223687
That was a fear I had as I had used a “cheap and nasty” bit of kit in the past on a project car that was an utter failure.
The problem is that the route is entangled with some of the other pipes at the ABS.
It will be impossible to lift the calliper end out without removing all sorts including the servo.

The options are renew the whole length in Cu/Ni but in at least two pieces, 
Cut it at some convenient point and join in a new bit in Cu/Ni 
The last option and perhaps second choice involves flaring a steel tube.
Therefore if cutting and flaring a steel tube why not cut off the end and renew the flare.
Just need a good tool to do that. I have measured the tube OD and it looks an odd size 4.9mm or 0.1925”

Im open to any good ideas.

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Replied by Delbourt on topic Brake pipe flares

Posted 1 month 1 week ago #223688
Im expecting to need a double flare
Can anyone confirm that or know differently please?

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Replied by Delbourt on topic Brake pipe flares

Posted 1 month 1 week ago #223692
Right an update and a request for opinions from those with practical experience of these things.
First thing to say is that with experimentation and time I believe it is possible to extract the pipe from the ABS unit to the front near side calliper “in one”
After pushing and twisting and eventually pushing it to the offside so that it could be extracted from the rest of the bunch at the ABS I managed to get enough out of the wheel arch and rotate the end to get a good visual inspection rather than cut it off and renew the flare in-situ with the words of wisdom from “TA22GT” ringing in my ears.
After a little cleaning up the end appears to be formed such that the very central section contacts the female part (in this case the hose) before the outer ring which all might be clearer if seen in the attached image.
So in my opinion this end flare and fitting is “fit for service” or at least a trial as in service it is only the inner ring of the cone around the bore that appears to have been making the seal.
If others think not I’ll be interested to hear more and why. It is important to get this right.  

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Replied by Delbourt on topic Brake pipe flares

Posted 1 month 1 week ago #223693
Photo that could not be attached in previous message 
Good for use?
Last Edit:1 month 1 week ago by Delbourt
Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by Delbourt.

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Replied by TA22GT on topic Brake pipe flares

Posted 1 month 1 week ago #223694
I have found with brake pipes that they tend to leak immediately once they are subjected to pedal pressure.
If they are sound they tend to stay sound and checking them after a run if there is no leak it usually means all good.
On the steel pipe I flared on the car I checked it for a few days because it wasn't the perfect flare I can get with copper. It has remained tight.
I would be at least trying that pipe and if it holds brake pressure initially it won't suddenly not...meaning if it doesn't hold it will be a weep and not a catastrophe.
Others may differ.
by TA22GT
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Replied by Delbourt on topic Brake pipe flares

Posted 1 month 1 week ago #223695
My thoughts exactly. Looking down the bore of the mating female thread it would seem that it relied or utilised only the area i described closer to the centre of the tube.
So it’s going to get a trial.
If it weeps I at least know or think I can remove the tube/pipe in one piece to use as a template. The trick to getting it virtually out was to first of all “persuade” it to duck under one of the other brake pipes and move it further to the offside of the car then wriggle it out from one of the others feeding the rear.
As an aside i could see no pressure balance valve. I suspect that feature is eliminated by the ABS being present (and that probably means that for optimum performance it will be best to continue to upgrade the rear brakes after completing the front.
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Replied by TA22GT on topic Brake pipe flares

Posted 1 month 1 week ago #223697
I would be surprised if you had the bias valve with the way ABS works.
This is where it is situated on non ABS cars.
The connector attached to the copper brake pipe and joining on to the steel pipe is where it would sit.
 

Good luck!
 
by TA22GT
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Replied by MGB281 on topic Brake pipe flares

Posted 1 month 1 week ago #223698
You are correct there was no need for a pressure regulating valve when ABS was fitted. Your also making  very valid point regarding upgrading the rears at the same time as the front ones. As I have pointed out before increasing the diameter of the discs by 16% will give a corresponding increase in braking power. Adding a similar sized set of discs will balance it out very well as you would expect. The problem is that owners see the AP factory fitted brakes with the 240mm discs on the rear and think if the factory can do that with 304mm discs then I will be okay with some 280’s. Very few ever do the calculations and realise that all is not what it seems. 
by MGB281
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Replied by Delbourt on topic Brake pipe flares

Posted 1 month 1 week ago #223702
As I see it if 304 discs with the the 2 pot not 4 pot front calliper on a non ABS car should do as well as practically possible if fitted with 280 discs at the rear.
I can’t see a better option unless Im missing something when fitted with the 304 2 pot.

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Replied by Notanumber on topic Brake pipe flares

Posted 1 month 1 week ago #223713
Ive flared the ends of steel pipes for joining onto new copper sections, The flaring tool I used consisted of 2 parts which bolt together and then a bolt is tightened up which does the flaring. Definitely look for one that mentions steel but this was just a mid priced flaring tool from either Toolstation or Machine Mart.  The steel pipe needs more force to flare than copper does but its quite easy to achieve.  I used it under the car in the rain so not ideal conditions but it was fine.

2003 MG TF 135 sunstorm

1979 MGB GT

Previously:
2002 115 TF + 1998 118 MG F

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