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Improving rear braking the simple way - edited 8 years 8 months ago #161263
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- Fatbaldingoldgit
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There have been many posts highlighting the need to improve rear braking on Fs/TFs.
This has been largely driven by the observation that MGR didn't increase rear braking performance when they upgraded the front brakes to the AP 4 pot callipers with the larger 304mm disks (from 240mm)
Many have elected to upgrade their rear brakes by fitting larger discs, either the 266mm Maidstone Sports Cars conversion or the 280mm ones available elsewhere.
I've always felt that increasing the disk size offers only a limited improvement. For instance, using a 280mm disk instead of a 240mm disk will give a 280/240 or 17% improvement in braking, all other things being equal. Whereas choosing your pads carefully and selecting those with a greater Coefficient of Friction (stickiness) could do the same, and much more, but with no other changes.
For instance..last year I had a set of Mintex 1202 pads fitted to my LE500..The CoF of those is documented as 0.25 to 0.35 (say 0.30). I had those checked as part of the MOT.
This year I changed the rear pads to EBC Greenstuff 2000s..The CoF of those is documented as 0.55, a nominal improvement of 83% over the Mintex. I had those checked as part of the MOT a few days ago at the same garage.
At the same time I changed the front pads to EBC Ultimax2 and they had a slightly lower CoF of 0.46 compared to 0.50.
I attach the figures here for interest but the main findings were:
1. Overall braking has improved by 6%
2. Rear braking has improved by a massive 40%
3. Curiously the front braking has decreased by 16%, although the new pads were only 8% less sticky. I can't explain the results for the front.
4. ..but confirming the 83% increase in CoF of the EBC Greens my handbrake performance has improved by 81%.
Above post edited due to change in EBC Ultimax2 CoF
This has been largely driven by the observation that MGR didn't increase rear braking performance when they upgraded the front brakes to the AP 4 pot callipers with the larger 304mm disks (from 240mm)
Many have elected to upgrade their rear brakes by fitting larger discs, either the 266mm Maidstone Sports Cars conversion or the 280mm ones available elsewhere.
I've always felt that increasing the disk size offers only a limited improvement. For instance, using a 280mm disk instead of a 240mm disk will give a 280/240 or 17% improvement in braking, all other things being equal. Whereas choosing your pads carefully and selecting those with a greater Coefficient of Friction (stickiness) could do the same, and much more, but with no other changes.
For instance..last year I had a set of Mintex 1202 pads fitted to my LE500..The CoF of those is documented as 0.25 to 0.35 (say 0.30). I had those checked as part of the MOT.
This year I changed the rear pads to EBC Greenstuff 2000s..The CoF of those is documented as 0.55, a nominal improvement of 83% over the Mintex. I had those checked as part of the MOT a few days ago at the same garage.
At the same time I changed the front pads to EBC Ultimax2 and they had a slightly lower CoF of 0.46 compared to 0.50.
I attach the figures here for interest but the main findings were:
1. Overall braking has improved by 6%
2. Rear braking has improved by a massive 40%
3. Curiously the front braking has decreased by 16%, although the new pads were only 8% less sticky. I can't explain the results for the front.
4. ..but confirming the 83% increase in CoF of the EBC Greens my handbrake performance has improved by 81%.
Above post edited due to change in EBC Ultimax2 CoF
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Improving rear braking the simple way 8 years 8 months ago #161265
If I've read this right, you changed the rear pads to greenstuff and left the fronts as mintex.
Does that mean that the back is overbraking because of the better CoF, so the front doesn't then have to work so hard?
Makes you wonder what fitting greenstuff pads to the front as well would do......
Does that mean that the back is overbraking because of the better CoF, so the front doesn't then have to work so hard?
Makes you wonder what fitting greenstuff pads to the front as well would do......
Robin 
Improving rear braking the simple way 8 years 8 months ago #161266
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- Fatbaldingoldgit
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Improving rear braking the simple way 8 years 8 months ago #161272
I fitted EBC Ultimax to the front...see cell F11...same CoF...supposedly...The back is braking better because the pads are stickier..more friction = more braking force available..think I might fit greens to the front and see what that does..
My bad, should have examined your spreadsheet closer.
Robin
Improving rear braking the simple way 8 years 8 months ago #161276
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- Rich in Vancouver
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Interesting. I have had EBC pads and rotors on my VVC since I bought it and have been wondering why everyone complains about the braking.
My only other brake mods are braided hoses and a Jaylad Master Cylinder support bracket.
My only other brake mods are braided hoses and a Jaylad Master Cylinder support bracket.
Improving rear braking the simple way 8 years 8 months ago #161281
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- talkingcars
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